Interpreting Christmas, with Ken Turino

Automatic Shownotes

Chapters

Transcript

Jake:
[0:05] Welcome to Hub History, where we go far beyond the freedom trail to share our favorite stories from the history of Boston, the Hub of the Universe.

Welcome to Hub History

Jake:
[0:14] This is episode 342, Interpreting Christmas with Ken Torino. Hi, I’m Jake. This week, co-host Emerita Nikki is going to rejoin the show. For those of you who haven’t listened to Hub History from the very beginning, when we started over nine years ago, Nikki used to be our regular co-host, back when Hub History was a weekly show. She left the show years ago, but she’s going to come out of retirement to help out with some episodes while I’m off working on a different project. If you want to hear more about that, there’s a quick four-minute episode up in the feed right now where you can learn more about my work with Queer History Boston. In the meantime, you’re going to hear Nikki in just a couple of minutes, and she’ll be joined by Ken Torino, a public history career professional and expert on the interpretation of Christmas at historic sites. In this episode, they’ll be talking about the Boston origins of some of our favorite Christmas traditions, like Christmas cards and Christmas trees. They’ll also be talking about Ken’s new book, Interpreting Christmas at Museums and Historic Sites, which offers practical guidance on how to use holiday cheer to engage interested visitors without alienating those who don’t celebrate.

Jake:
[1:31] But before I turn the show over to Nikki and Ken, I just want to pause and say a heartfelt thank you to everybody who supports Hub History financially. Even during this time of transition, with me stepping away just temporarily, the listeners who commit to kicking in $2, $5, or even $20 or more each month on Patreon give me the confidence that there’s still going to be a podcast for me to come back to in a few months. Their regular support takes care of our regular recurring expenses, like the cost of media hosting or keeping our companion website secure and online. And one-time contributions by listeners like Doug C. On PayPal help to pay for one-time expenses, like the laptop that I finally had to break down and buy this month after my seven-year-old Lenovo finally gave up the ghost. So to everybody who’s already supporting the show, thank you. If you’re not yet supporting the show and you’d like to start, it’s easy. Just go to patreon.com slash hubhistory, or visit hubhistory.com and click on the Support Us link. And thanks again to all our new and returning sponsors.

Nikki Returns to the Show

Jake:
[2:39] Now, let’s welcome Nikki back to the show.

Nikki:
[2:43] I’m joined now by Ken Torino, Senior Search Consultant for Museum Search and Reference. Ken is a nationally recognized leader in exhibition development, community engagement, and historic site interpretation. For over two decades, Ken served as the Manager of Community Partnerships and Resource Development at Historic New England. His award-winning work includes exhibitions like Yankee Remix with Mass Mocha and The Importance of Being Furnished. And community projects such as At the River’s Edge, which aired on public television, and his Haymarket project celebrating Boston’s immigrant history, which earned the American Association of State and Local Histories Award of Excellence.

Nikki:
[3:29] Ken is also an adjunct professor in the Tufts University Museum Studies Program, where he teaches courses on the future of historic houses and exhibit planning. His past books include Reimagining Historic House Museums and a chapter titled The Varied Telling of Queer History at Historic New England Sites in the book Interpreting LGBT History in Museums and Historic Sites. His latest work is Interpreting Christmas at Museums and Historic Sites, which is what we’ll be discussing today. We are joined today by Ken Torino, who is a career museum and historic site

Introducing Ken Torino

Nikki:
[4:10] professional, and also an expert on the interpretation of Christmas. So Ken, welcome to the podcast.

Ken Turino:
[4:17] Thank you. I’m very glad to be here.

Nikki:
[4:20] Ken, just to get started, I mean, you have had a tremendous wealth of experience, both in the field and teaching and writing and all of that. So can you just give our listeners a little bit of your background, a little bit of your career trajectory?

Ken Turino:
[4:35] Sure. I’ve played many different roles in museums. As a museum educator is how I started out, working at the National Museum of American History at the Smithsonian and then in Old Town Alexandria, before becoming an executive director for a museum in Lynn, Massachusetts, the Lynn Museum and Historical Society, which is actually where I started my Christmas research, because we owned a historic site and wanted to make sure that we’re going to be able to do that. we were interpreting it correctly. From there, I went on to Historic New England, where I was for 24 years working on exhibitions and community engagement, and Christmas came back into that scene. I also teach museum studies at Tufts, classes on exhibitions and historic houses. And with Max von Balgewe, my co-editor on Interpreting Christmas for Museums and Historic sites. We do webinars around the country on the sustainability of historic sites.

Ken’s Background and Expertise

Ken Turino:
[5:38] So there has been kind of a through line with Christmas through a lot of my work that resulted in the book.

Nikki:
[5:45] The book is Interpreting Christmas at Museums and Historic Sites. It’s part of a series that gives guidance on lots of types of interpretation. I’m at Old North Church. I have the interpreting religion at historic sites. I’ve read interpreting slavery, interpreting slavery for children and teens. And so I do want to give our listeners a plug that, you know, this is a series that,

The Cultural Origins of Christmas

Nikki:
[6:12] really is geared toward museum and historic site staff and practitioners. But we are certainly in a political climate where I think history lovers and historic site lovers really do want to educate themselves about how we do our interpretation and what goes into that, right? Like that’s kind of a hot button issue now.

Ken Turino:
[6:33] I totally agree. And I think the series is excellent for giving people tips on that, because one of them is interpreting difficult history, part of that series. The thing about Christmas that makes it really interesting is that the Christmas we know today really draws from many, many different cultures. And I’m talking immigrant cultures, because we all were. You know, the Spanish settling in Florida in the 16th century brought their Catholic religious ceremonies with them that add into the mix. Also coming in through Mexico, California, and then you had your French Canadians with their traditions. And since then, I mean, a lot of the other immigrants, a lot of our Christmas today is drawn on from German immigrants. So the Christmas we know today is, is really, um, a mixture of many, many different immigrant groups in their customs. And I think that’s what’s so great about it. We wanted to make sure in the book that we actually included a chapter on religion, because a lot of Christmas can be secular.

Ken Turino:
[7:57] And a lot of what I focus in on, and a lot of places do is the secular side. But religion is a big part of that and is a big part of the celebration, I should say. So I think it’s a great example of how different cultures come together to create something essentially new and essentially American.

Christmas Traditions and Their Relevance

Nikki:
[8:25] There are so many different reasons for why people celebrate a particular holiday. Not everybody who celebrates St. Patrick’s Day is Irish, right? You might be shocked to learn that. But as it turns out, that’s true. And there are a lot of reasons why people celebrate Christmas or why they don’t, right? But it’s not just religious. It’s cultural. It’s social. It’s all of these things. And, you know, what I think about in the interpretation of Old North, there’s always this guiding question for everything that we’re thinking about doing is, is it relevant to us? Is it our story to tell? Is it our history to present? And so… How do you, as a museum person, as a historic site person, like, how do you know when it’s relevant or when is it not relevant? You know, you’ve interpreted Christmas in a lot of different places. So how do you tackle that thought process?

Interpreting Christmas at Historic Sites

Ken Turino:
[9:26] That’s an excellent question because let’s face it, Christmas is big business and museums need to be sustainable. Historic sites need to be sustainable. and the Christmas, and you know, I’m saying Christmas, but our book also included chapters on Hanukkah and Kwanzaa because we wanted to be as inclusive as possible. It’s all part of the holidays, but we did go with Christmas as our title because that really was the focus. But what you’re saying about a site is you start with what is –.

Ken Turino:
[10:05] Or was done at your site, right? That’s the starting point. Now, the problem here in New England is that they didn’t celebrate Christmas in the 18th century. So if you have an 18th century site and you want to celebrate the holiday, historically correct, that means you wouldn’t do anything. But that’s often not the case. People use this as an opportunity because museums are about making memories for families and community, especially at the holidays. So I think it’s perfectly okay if you want to have a festival of trees in your house, or if you want to have a decorator showcase. I think that is absolutely fine as long as there’s truth in advertising. You’re not telling people that this is how Christmas was celebrated in the century here in New England.

The Evolution of Christmas Decorations

Ken Turino:
[11:00] There are other ways of doing it. When you get into the 19th century.

Ken Turino:
[11:05] That’s a different story when it really starts to take root. So you start with, what is the history of your site? What took place at your site? And if you don’t have the documentation, what we do as public historians, we look at, are there like families in the community that we do have documentation that we can extrapolate from and say, this might have happened in this property in our community, and so on. So that’s part of the historical process, which I know you know very well. But, you know, with your site, for example, I mean, it’s interesting. One of the earliest references we found to decorating was not houses, It was churches, churches before houses were ever decorated. And that’s really, you know, 19th century. And it’s like, what is your period of interpretations? For example, sites have changed well over time in many different ways. You can celebrate that continuum, or are you focused in on only one certain period? That’s for the site and their staff to determine.

Nikki:
[12:24] And, you know, it’s interesting with Old North, you know, our visitors would love to be coming to Old North now and seeing it all decked out for Christmas. But that’s not the Episcopal Church’s tradition, right? There are very specific parameters for when you can start to decorate. And so there will be volunteers on site this coming weekend, although that doesn’t really align with when this podcast is going to come out. But in the first weekend in December, volunteers arrive and green the campus, but they won’t green inside of the church yet. And sometimes I think Old North feels this push and pull. And if we do it a little too early, you know, we will get pushback. Maybe not from visitors, but certainly on social media. There are Christmas police out there that know that it’s a little too early.

Ken Turino:
[13:14] But at some point in the history, was it decorated?

Nikki:
[13:18] It was. It was. And it will be, right? It will be for Christmas night. It will be beautiful. It will be absolutely beautiful. But you’re not going to see a Christmas wreath on December 1st in the church.

The 19th Century Christmas Tree

Nikki:
[13:33] You mentioned that a lot of the Christmas traditions that we embrace today as Americans began with German immigrants. And you also mentioned in the book that the traditions today really date to the 19th century. And that made a lot of sense to me, right? Because the 19th century is when we start to have cultural infrastructure that allows fashions and trends to really spread rapidly. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Ken Turino:
[14:01] Well, yeah. For example, the Christmas tree. We know that German immigrants, we have accounts in the early 18-teens had Christmas trees. We also have documented at the Winterthur Museum, the earliest image we have of a Christmas tree. And that was between 1812 and 1819. It was in the Pennsylvania countryside. We have that documentation. But how people first learned about Christmas trees was by reading about them or seeing images before they actually had one. Boston being a publication center, we see the first printed image in 1836. And that was by a German immigrant, Hermann Bochum. So we have this documentation. We know people are reading stories about Christmas trees. They’re intrigued.

Ken Turino:
[15:02] They see images a little bit later. There’s a very famous image of Queen Victoria and Prince Albert that was published in 1848 in the London Evening News and then crosses the pond and appears in Goatee’s Lady’s book in 1850. And the first place you would actually see a tree was… At a church fair, which were right in the season of an early December, or a Sunday school. And newspapers would actually advertise that they would have a Christmas tree because it was so new, and people didn’t have them in their houses. And they charged admission, not just in Boston, this is throughout New England, I found accounts of this. So it’s a big deal. But you know, today we have the internet and everything is instantaneous. In the 19th century, it was publications, newspapers, books that you learned

The Role of Christmas Cards

Ken Turino:
[16:04] about this custom of a Christmas tree before you ever would have one. They called it sometimes a German ornament. And people’s descriptions are just kind of amazing because it was so new.

Nikki:
[16:17] I really love the idea that the popularity of Christmas trees took off not because people were seeing them, but because they were reading them. That’s such a quaint concept.

Ken Turino:
[16:29] It is. But once they started seeing them, they were intrigued. I mean, there are reports in Boston. And this is another talk about politics. The female abolitionist movement played a huge role, and we have a full chapter in our book about this, and the development of the Christmas we know today, because they also very early on at one of their fairs in Boston, they had a Christmas tree, and people had to buy tickets. That didn’t stop the crowds. They just pushed their way in. They had to seal the doors. It was such an event to see a Christmas tree. And then, you know, as I said, they started catching on and people had them, but they weren’t the Christmas tree we know today. They were typically the tabletop trees, much smaller, much more spacing in between the branches, or they were cut that way to allow for candles, which was the way you lit them. So they caught on starting more in cities in America and in urban centers, and then later on in the country. So you start seeing them at the fairs, and then they start appearing in houses. Again, it’s kind of fascinating to see how that happened.

Nikki:
[17:55] I think I remember in the book that the first written description of a Christmas tree was published by a Unitarian magazine here in Boston.

Ken Turino:
[18:08] The Unitarians were very big in promoting Christmas. And they promoted the Christmas tree, especially in their publications. And one of the reasons they’re doing this, because even though Christmas had been outlawed by the Puritans here in New England, in the 17th century, until the monarchy came back in, and Cromwell was out, the Puritan and then Congregationalists here in New England, you know, sort of kept things subdued in terms of the celebration, unlike what took place in other parts of the country. Some of that rowdiness did persist here, and the Unitarians were trying to promote Christmas as an idea where it was a more reverential holiday, a more family-centered holiday. So that’s the role that the Unitarians played in promoting Christmas and why they promoted Christmas.

Nikki:
[19:12] So I also enjoyed reading about the advent of artificial Christmas trees, which came along surprisingly earlier than I thought they would have. And I really enjoyed imagining the earliest artificial trees, as you described them, made from dyed ostrich feathers. I would love to get my hands on one of those today.

Ken Turino:
[19:36] Well, you know, there are big collectors of Christmas items. There’s a magazine, The Glow, devoted to that, and you can surprisingly still find them. Of course, you could probably guess who introduced them to America, the Germans. They were first produced in Germany and came to America as imports, as the same thing with ornaments. The first ornaments were glass ornaments developed in Germany. There were whole towns devoted to creating these Christmas ornaments, and they were sold individually. They were very precious. It wasn’t until later in the 19th century that you start having full sets of Christmas ornaments, the kind that we’re used to seeing today, shiny bright being one of the big names in the 20th century. But yeah, the fake Christmas tree is interesting because in the 20th century, we’re all familiar that you could buy green trees.

Ken Turino:
[20:46] Fake Christmas trees. But in the 50s and 60s, you start having these metallic kind of space age ones. And I must admit, our family had one and oftentimes they had rotate a machine of rotating colored lights that would change your metallic tree, different colors. Actually, I was at a holiday event last night, and they had one. And it was quite fun to see. But people of a certain generation will absolutely remember those from the 50s, 60s, and they went into the early 70s before they went out of style, so to speak. And one of the reasons were because they were actually highly flammable. Another reason they went out of style.

Nikki:
[21:37] Well, Ken, that brings me to the question that’s been burning for me is in the early days when they were lighting with candles. How often do these things catch on fire? How did they take precaution against that?

Ken Turino:
[21:52] There are many accounts of this. So the way a Christmas tree would be displayed would usually be in a separate room where the doors could be closed. The adults would be in the room. Remember I mentioned the shape of the trees were different than what we’re used to today. we go for full trees. Oftentimes these were trimmed so that there was a lot more space between them and candles would be attached by these candle holders that you could just clip onto the tree. You would, and I have a period accounts that people generally had a bucket of water and or a bucket of sand there next to the tree. Some had a sponge in the water. So if something caught on fire, and I have an account of one toy dress and a doll catching on fire, and they dabbed it out. But these weren’t necessarily lit for the whole evening. As I mentioned, the doors would be closed, the adults would light the candles, open the doors, and people would come in and celebrate. And it could be with song, it could be just admiring the tree.

Ken Turino:
[23:16] And some people just put them out after a while. I do know and I have friends from Austria here in this country who keep up this tradition. And they do keep theirs on for quite a while. So it really depended. But in 19th century, I found that many people just had them on for a while. And they were very closely monitored. And yes, they did catch on fire.

Nikki:
[23:45] You mentioned celebrating with music. Did Christmas carols, as we know them today, begin within the church, or did they begin in a secular context?

Ken Turino:
[23:59] Again, with different traditions, different cultures, we know that there was Christmas music produced for the church going back to the Middle Ages. And you can, fortunately, through organizations or groups like the Boston Camerata and other early music groups, hear those today. Christmas music has been produced in the church pretty much continuously since I know of the Middle Ages. Now, was there secular music in Christmas carols? Absolutely. Absolutely. Even here, even in New England, when the Puritans were, as I said, opposed to celebrations, there was music produced and there was secular music produced. And that’s its own whole topic.

Nikki:
[24:55] We’ll tackle that on the pod next Christmas. Yes. So when we think about kind of the way that the style of Christmas spread, the vibe, if you will, the way the vibe spread, right? So it comes from German immigrants, largely, really gets popularized in many ways through Boston, which, you know, was not really a German city, but we take up the mantle. So if we were to be able to step back into, let’s say, the Gibson house or the Otis house at the end of the 19th century, how would they have decorated for Christmas? What would the house look like?

Ken Turino:
[25:39] So in the late 19th century, and the Gibson House is a great example because that house was used year round, whereas a lot of, for example, Historic New England owns 38 historic sites. Many of those were 18th century sites where they didn’t celebrate or like the Newport Mansions, its own separate organization. Those were summer houses, which would never have been decorated for Christmas. But of course, they are now because it’s big business. But talking about Gibson, that was a Victorian home. And I don’t specifically have the references to it, but most likely it would have been all decked out. Now, by that time in the late 19th century, the trend was for floor to ceiling Christmas trees. I mentioned the earlier ones were tabletop. So that didn’t mean that everyone who had tabletops stopped doing tabletops. It meant that there were more and more floor to ceiling Christmas trees that were sold outside. There were places, especially in cities in New York and Boston, where you could easily get them.

Ken Turino:
[26:49] So those would have been decorated with the ornaments because at that point, everything’s interrelated. In the earlier period, Christmas trees… First half of the 19th century, Christmas gifts would have been tied to the tree. They would not have been wrapped. If they were too big, they were placed underneath the tabletop tree or on the floor. By the end of the 19th century, you now have the fashion of wrapping gifts that would be placed under the tree. And the first wrappings were plain white paper tied with a plain ribbon. It’s only until the very end of the 19th century, the early 20th century, that you get the paper wrappings that we’re used to today. And Massachusetts played a role in that too, with the development of Denison’s. It was a factory that first started in Maine and then came to Massachusetts. And they did patterned or colored papers that became the rage.

Ken Turino:
[27:59] You would have had at this time probably less handmade ornaments, but that’s not to say people still didn’t do handmade ornaments and the single ornaments they bought from Germany, but they could have bought whole sets of ornaments now. So that’s a change. There would have been more greenery in the house. The first greenery I believe I mentioned, was used in churches.

Ken Turino:
[28:25] And it doesn’t start appearing in the houses until 1830s. And that’s where I have references for wreaths. But by the late 19th century, houses would have had the swags of greenery and holly that we think of as, you know, particularly associated with Christmas. So that’s that. Now, the Otis house in the late 19th century, since you brought it up, would have been a boarding house. So it’s a good question of, was there any decoration there? I don’t believe Historic New England has any accounts. So they don’t know if people did some individual decorating in their house. But certainly, when the Otis’s lived there, in the early 19th century, there would have been nothing. There would have been absolutely nothing to decorate that house.

Nikki:
[29:17] It seems like if we wanted to decorate our homes this Christmas in a way that harkens back to the 19th century, we need to incorporate more greens, right? We need to bring in the wreaths and decorate the fireplace, and our houses are really going to smell wonderfully like fir and pine.

Ken Turino:
[29:36] Absolutely. And, you know, there was a whole industry here in New England to help support that and also in other parts of the country. but particularly here. There’s some wonderful Winslow Homer illustrations showing people gathering greens here in New England for sale. And there’s also some interior illustrations by Winslow Homer and others that show you those swags of greenery. And as the 19th century, they would cover your mirrors. As the 19th century went on, there was more and more of that. One thing I would like to say, because we’ve talked a lot about the German influence, but we can’t forget the Dutch. And that’s really important. The Dutch in New York play a major role by the introduction of Santa Claus. And Washington Irving writes about Santa Claus coming from where he lived, which was Spain.

Ken Turino:
[30:37] Why not? Nicer climate than the North Pole. It was St. Nicholas. And St. Nicholas is actually, was, probably still is, the patron saint of the New York Historical Society. The Dutch were promoting Santa Claus for St. Nicholas as a calming effect because the rowdiness that was less prevalent in New England was very, very much prevalent in New York. And there are accounts in New York and Philadelphia of people literally breaking down doors and demanding food and drink. And they won’t go until they get some, and they won’t go until they get some. That’s harking back to, of course, the English song, but that’s absolutely true. So the Knickerbockers, which were the descendants of the original Dutch, including Washington Irving, promoted St. Nicholas and the idea of Christmas.

Ken Turino:
[31:43] And it’s the Dutch who helped adapt. The Dutch did use Christmas stockings, and that’s become a part of our tradition. So, again, we’re drawing from different cultures. So we can’t forget the Dutch influence. That’s really big. We probably would not have Santa Claus if we didn’t have St. Nicholas first.

Nikki:
[32:08] It’s interesting that to create a calming effect, we adopted St. Nicholas and Santa Claus and not Krampus. So we were going for positive reinforcement rather than negative reinforcement.

Ken Turino:
[32:23] Some Christmas traditions crossed over to America, and some did not. And some did not catch on. The Yule log is not universally used in America. I found some accounts in the South, which was more English. But, you know, that really did not catch on. We made our own traditions by grabbing and morphing other traditions.

Nikki:
[32:53] You know, I grew up in Pennsylvania, which is very German. And I think overall, we really underestimate, the amount of white Americans with German heritage, right? Like it’s huge, huge. But I hadn’t heard of Krampus until really the last 10 years. So that totally passed me by. And I also didn’t know what a Christmas cracker was until somebody gave me one a few years ago. And I just was like, I don’t know what to do with this. What is this thing?

Ken Turino:
[33:23] So that’s a good example. A Christmas cracker is something that you… is true.

Nikki:
[33:29] Can you describe it? We may have listeners who don’t know what a Christmas cracker is.

Ken Turino:
[33:33] Exactly. I mean, you can purchase them now readily, all made. But think of a tube that is filled with a paper hat, a very thin paper hat, and some little gifts that would fit into a tube about the size of one for paper towels.

Nikki:
[33:58] Yeah, paper towel roll.

Ken Turino:
[34:00] Yeah.

Nikki:
[34:00] Wrapped in Christmas paper now.

Ken Turino:
[34:03] Wrapped in Christmas paper and tied at both ends. And running through it is a piece of paper that has powder that when you pull it, it pops, makes a popping noise. And that spills everything inside out onto your table. You put on your hat. There’s always a little quiz or joke that you read to people at the table. Actually, that’s become part of my Christmas celebrations. Again, that’s not universally popular in America at all. But it’s something that we enjoy. So we do at our Christmas Eve dinner. And we also do it at a New Year’s Eve dinner we traditionally have with friends. So we really enjoyed that. So part of, people’s personal Christmas depends on their heritage, but also things that they choose and adopt as part of their celebrations.

Nikki:
[34:59] Another Christmas tradition that we haven’t talked about yet is Christmas cards, which also started in Boston. Well, well, I’ll let you take that one.

Ken Turino:
[35:11] So the earliest Christmas cards actually started in England. And they were about the size, Think of a business card or a calling card. And that was done in England in the 1840s. And then the first American ones were done in circa 1851 for Pisa’s variety store, which was in Albany. And I know of two that exist. One’s in the Winter Tour Museum collection, and the other one is at the New York State Historical Society in Albany. But you’re absolutely right. They become popular in America because of a German immigrant who came to Boston and started his business and became known for his wonderful cards.

Ken Turino:
[36:14] Louis Prang of Boston is credited with popularizing American cards, and they consisted of simple floral designs with the inscription, Merry Christmas. These early cards, again, about the size of a business card, did not have what we would consider Christmas imagery on it. They would be things like a fall leaf or robin’s eggs with cherry blossoms on the same card.

Ken Turino:
[36:43] They may have had meaning and symbolism to the Victorians because we’re talking in the 1870s. So it took a little while for them to catch on and to come from England to America. See, there’s a little delay there from that first card in 1843, but they catch on. It does take a while for Prang to make larger cards the size and his larger size usually had fringe on them. And you can find them at flea markets or antique stores. And it’s, again, later in the 19th century that you start having what we considered Christmas imagery, you know, with the holly, with mistletoe, with children singing in choirs, with winter clothing, and so on. And, again, it took time for that vocabulary about what’s supposed to be, excuse me, what’s supposed to be in a Christmas card to develop. Well, Boston, because the printing, as we mentioned with the books and now his chromolithographs, played a huge role in the promotion of Christmas and what we know today.

Nikki:
[38:01] So, Ken, in the beginning of the conversation, you know, you mentioned how Christmas

The Commercialization of Christmas

Nikki:
[38:06] is so commercialized today, right? And that’s something that I think as museums and historic sites, we wrestle with because, you know, we’re always trying to earn what we can and pay our bills. But could you talk a little bit about where this commercialization came from? How did that begin?

Ken Turino:
[38:25] We think of how commercial Christmas is today and we start seeing, especially this year, I started seeing Christmas ads well before Thanksgiving and hearing Christmas music.

Nikki:
[38:41] In September, right?

Ken Turino:
[38:43] Yeah. And even before Halloween, yes, in September, I was amazed in October that they were putting up Christmas trees on Newbury Street in some of the shops. And I’m there like, no, no, it’s too early. But you know what? In reality… Commercialization of Christmas was there from the beginning. In the early 19th century, I have Christmas ads from 1806 in Salem and in that decade in Boston. So as the Christmas we know is starting to develop and evolve in the 19th century, the commercialization of there is there because what happens is, you know, the same time you have.

Ken Turino:
[39:29] You were able to get more goods at less expensive prices as we develop in this country, as industrialization develops in this country. And what happens is that merchants take advantage of this. They’re smart. So they start advertising right away, you know, for Christmas gifts and New Year’s. New Year’s was in the early part of the century, the bigger gift giving holiday. But early the first quarter of the 19th century, it does change to to Christmas. And the amounts of ads that you find and what people are selling are just absolutely amazing and anything is being offered um and i i have you know i have this wonderful quote ellen lyman wrote in her journal on december 23rd 1866 quote offerly this morning to buy abby’s cuckoo clock afterwards to mccarthy’s to buy greens home to dinner and directly out again to buy 14 more presents finished at last at 6 30 having bought 147 presents since tuesday afternoon what was five days five days and we think we’re crazy um about you know.

Ken Turino:
[40:57] Shopping. It was there. The commercialization of there was from the beginning, and it only gets earlier and more intense.

Ken Turino:
[41:05] Santa gets, you know, opted to sell goods at shops in the 19th century. And you see him hawking and advertising all kinds of goods in the 20th century, you know, from cigarettes to candies.

Experiencing Christmas in Boston

Nikki:
[41:22] So for listeners who are local to the Boston area, who really want to get out and experience the Christmas ambiance at a museum or a historic site, what are some of your favorites? You know, locally, who does Christmas really well?

Ken Turino:
[41:38] That’s a great.

Nikki:
[41:40] Old North Church, obviously.

Ken Turino:
[41:41] But otherwise. Obviously. Well, you know, I would say, again, if you’re talking about experience or you’re talking about authenticity, for example, the Newport Mansions go all out and it’s a spectacle and it’s really, really fun. Then Blythewald does a really, in Rhode Island, does a spectacular Christmas display in all the rooms. And this is its own separate historic site. And they light the grounds. So we’ve gone out there just for the spectacle. You know, if you want to see traditional Christmas decorations in a Victorian house, I would recommend two sites, one right in the Boston area, and that’s the Eustace Estate in Milton. And they get help from their local garden clubs, but they do a good, traditional, appropriately directed Christmas.

Ken Turino:
[42:51] And the other one is in Portland, Maine. It’s the Libby Mansion. They do an amazing Victorian Christmas. So those are two things. I’m probably missing others, but those are two that pop into my mind right away as doing things really well. The House of Seven Gables, and we have a picture of the last family that lived in there before it was a museum. We have a picture of their floor-to-ceiling Christmas tree with Christmas presents all around it. And they do a great Christmas tour talking about the traditions. And a lot of what we just talked about, how, you know, that’s a 17th century house, but people lived in it as a house into the early 20th century before it became a museum. And they interpret all of that and have decorated the rooms to reflect all of that, meaning in the early 17th century rooms, there’s nothing. But when you get to the Victorian Edwardian, you’ll find the full decorations. But in the tour, they give you sort of a history of Christmas and the changing traditions as you go through it. So I also recommend the House of Seven Gables in Salem.

Nikki:
[44:09] That sounds like a wonderful experience. Everybody goes to Salem for Halloween. So it would be a little rebellious to go there for Christmas instead.

International Christmas Traditions

Ken Turino:
[44:20] Right.

Nikki:
[44:20] So Ken, my last question for you is, what international Christmas tradition do you wish that we would adopt more here in the US?

Ken Turino:
[44:33] Well, I’m going to give you two. One is that, and you know, I do lectures on the history of Christmas all around. And I often ask people in the audience, if they’ve ever seen real Christmas candles on a tree. Inevitably, there is someone who has either a Scandinavian or German family background, where they’ve experienced it. I’d love to see more of that. I know it’s probably, we couldn’t do it in our museums it wouldn’t be safe we didn’t want to be legal but i’d love to see more of that because i have experienced it at my friend’s house and it’s absolutely stunning and beautiful and the other and we didn’t talk about this and it’s another whole podcast is you know the food traditions so many cultures have theirs associated with the holidays i grew up in an Italian household, and my favorite meal of the entire year was Christmas Eve with the seven fishes. My family still does, keeps up that tradition with the next generation, and it’s being passed down as something. So I think food ways, I’d love to try more of other cultures’ food ways.

Ken Turino:
[45:53] And if you ever have seen the Rick Steves holiday special on PBS, he goes into that as he explores all these other traditions in Europe. But food is always a big part of that.

Nikki:
[46:08] Well, food is a part of the international tradition that I wish that we would adopt more, which is the German style Christmas market. And particularly the Glühwein. I would love to enjoy glue vine on the street in a Christmas market, but also the sausages.

Ken Turino:
[46:25] Absolutely.

Nikki:
[46:26] Absolutely.

Ken Turino:
[46:27] Yeah, that’s something. Yes, that’s that is something.

Wrapping Up the Conversation

Nikki:
[46:31] Well, Ken, it was lovely to talk to you about Christmas. Thank you for joining Hub History.

Ken Turino:
[46:38] Glad to be here, and let me wish everyone a happy holiday.

Nikki:
[46:42] To learn more about Ken and the opportunities presented by Interpreting Christmas at Historic Sites, check out this week’s show notes at hubhistory.com slash 342. We’ll have an affiliate link where you can buy Ken’s new book while supporting independent bookstores, authors, and this podcast, as well as a link to his profile on the Tufts faculty site and his author profile on the Bloomsbury site.

Jake:
[47:10] If you’d like to get in touch with us, you can email podcast at hubhistory.com. I still have profiles for Hub History on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram, and on Mastodon, where you can find me as at hubhistoryatbetter.boston. The only social media site where I’m actively interacting with people these days is Blue Sky, where you can just search for hubhistory.com. If you’re also not spending a lot of time on social media these days, you can just go to hubhistory.com and click on the Contact Us link.

Nikki:
[47:42] While you’re on the site, hit the subscribe link and be sure that you never miss an episode. If you subscribe on Apple Podcasts, please consider writing us a brief review. And if you do drop us a line and we’ll send you a hub history sticker as a token of appreciation that’s all for now stay safe out there listeners.