Rebels at Sea Revisited, with Eric Jay Dolin (episode 356)

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Jake:
[0:04] Welcome to Hub History, where we go far beyond the freedom trail to share our favorite stories from the history of Boston, the hub of the universe.

Rebels at Sea Begins

Jake:
[0:14] This is episode 356, Rebels at Sea Revisited, with Eric Jay Dolin. Hi, I’m Jake. This week, we’ll be marking the return of the tall ships to Boston Harbor when Sail Boston, kicks off on July 11th. We’re also continuing that Revolutionary War theme that we keep coming back to in this year of 250th anniversaries. This time, however, I’m not talking about a specific anniversary date. Instead, I’m going to play my interview with author Eric Jay Dolin about his 2022 book, Rebels at Sea, Privateering in the American Revolution. Back in November, we had an episode about the schooner Lee that was commanded by the mysterious Captain Manley. The Lee was one of the very first ships of the New Continental Navy. But, especially early in the war, the American cause relied on private vessels and private crews.

Jake:
[1:16] Some of the tall ships we’ll see on Boston Harbor this month will be recreating these vessels, which were known as privateers. Privateers were civilian ships that were outfitted for war by optimistic investors, with volunteer crews who were willing to risk their lives fighting for a share of the profits. From the mouth of Boston Harbor to the very shores of Britain, these private warships sailed in search of rich English merchant vessels, while risking the lives and freedom of their crews. While their role is mostly forgotten today, Eric will explain how central privateer crews were to the continental cause. And we’ll have a special focus on the many privateers that were crewed by New Englanders.

Jake:
[2:00] But before we bring in Eric Jay Dolin, I just want to pause and say thank you to all the listener supporters and make it possible for me to make Hub History. I’ve been doing some work to help another organization set up a new podcast, and this week I sat down and made them a shopping list of recording gear, acoustic room treatments, software to license, and all the other, stuff that they’d need to spend money on to get their show off the ground. It was a real moment of reflection for me because I don’t always remember what an investment I’ve made in this show. And from my Zoom field recorder, to my new Samson mic, to the Squadcast remote recording platform I use, it’s all made possible by the listeners who choose to support the show with $2, $5, or even $20 or more per month. So to everybody who’s already supporting the show, thank you. And if you’re not yet supporting the show and you’d like to start, it’s easy. Just go to patreon.com slash hubhistory or visit hubhistory.com and click on the Support Us link. And thanks again to all our new and returning sponsors.

Author and Book Background

Jake:
[3:11] When I sat down to talk to Eric Jay Dolin in May of 2022, Rebels at Sea was his 15th and latest book. His catalog includes a history of the U.S.-China trade, a history of whaling, and an environmental history of Boston Harbor. His 2019 book, Black Flags, Blue Waters, The Epic History of America’s Most Notorious Pirates, was a finalist for the Julia Ward Howe Award, and a featured pick at the Mass Historical Society. Since we spoke almost four years ago, Eric has published two more books, Left for Dead and The Wreck of the Mentor, both of which are about 19th century shipwrecks. Today, though, you’re going to hear us discuss Rebels at Sea, which shines a spotlight on piracy’s more respectable cousin, the privateer. Rebels at Sea is available in bookstores everywhere and through the affiliate link in this week’s show notes. Now here’s my conversation with Eric Jay Dolin.

Defining Privateering

Interview:
[4:14] Eric Jay Dolin, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. We’re here to talk about your new book, Rebels at Sea, which is all about privateering and the American Revolution. And I know you have a previous book, Black Flags, Blue Waters, about piracy. And it seems like whenever people talk about privateering, it’s always in relation to piracy. Some people say, well, privateering was legalized piracy or something like that. So, I’m wondering, for our listeners, can you give us a definition of privateering that doesn’t refer to the word piracy? During time of war, a government can issue letters of mark, which are legal documents, which give, private vessels the right to arm themselves, go forth upon the ocean, attack the enemies of the country or entity from which they sail. And if they capture enemy ships, those become prizes that are taken back into port. And if, in fact, it is a legal prize, the privateer owners and the privateer’s men, the people who crew the privateer, get to split the proceeds of that prize, the sale of the ship and the cargo, 50-50. In the pure definition of privateering, they are not pirates. They’re not going out like pirates and just marauding and attacking any ship upon the ocean.

Interview:
[5:35] Privateering was a legally accepted manner with which a country, could expand its power on the sea during times of war by essentially creating a militia at sea, a legally sanctioned militia at sea. The reason that so many people refer to privateers as pirates is because prior to the American Revolution.

Interview:
[6:03] There were many instances when countries such as England and France and others issued letters of marque. Made private merchant ships privateers, and they went out and they pillaged other country ships at a time when the issuing country was not at war with the ships, the country that the ships.

Interview:
[6:33] Being attacked was. So, it was basically like Sir Francis Drake, England. He was issued a letter of Mark, and he was one of Queen Elizabeth’s sea dogs. He was issued a letter of Mark to go attack Spanish shipping. The problem is, many times, his letter of Mark was issued at a time at which England and Spain were nominally at peace. They weren’t at war. So, he was really nothing more than a de facto pirate. And one last thing I want to say, the connection between privateering and piracy, that’s in part how I came to write this book. After I wrote Black Flags, Blue Waters, I went out and gave a bunch of talks. And invariably, during the question and answer period, people would ask about privateers. And they would either say in their question that, you know, privateers are really pirates. Do you talk about them? And I would have to make the distinction because even back then, although I didn’t know a huge amount about privateering, it’s not enough to just simply say that privateering was licensed piracy. You have to take into account the period that you’re considering and the actual.

Interview:
[7:45] Performance of those privateers. So all of those questions, while I was talking about pirates that linked to privateering, got me more interested in this whole thing about privateering.

Massachusetts Turns to Sea War

Interview:
[7:57] So that’s sort of a very long answer to your short question. Bringing it into the revolutionary era, we’re recording this interview right smack dab in the middle of what I consider the Massachusetts revolutionary season. We’re in between the anniversary of the Battles of Lexington and Concord that started the war and the Battle of Bunker Hill. So, with that in mind, how quickly did Massachusetts turn to privateering and what was it about the grievances that the people of Massachusetts had at the time or their experiences in earlier colonial wars that pushed the provincial Congress to debate issuing letters of marque?

Interview:
[8:35] Massachusetts was the origin of the privateering impulse within the colonies. After the battles of Lexington and Concord, Bunker Hill, the Continental Congress, recommended that the colonies pull together navies, in effect, to defend themselves against the, increasing attacks from Britain and the potential for futurist attacks. And a lot of the mariners and merchant owners and politicians in Massachusetts wanted to fight back at sea because a lot of the ships, Massachusetts ships, were being captured. And the attacks were mostly taking place at sea in addition to the siege of Boston. So early on, people in Massachusetts, there were some freelance privateers even before letters of Mark were being issued. There were individuals who owned merchant ships. They armed their ships, and they went out and they started attacking some of the British ships along the coast, causing a lot of problems. And they were starting to urge the Provincial Congress in Massachusetts to issue letters of mark, give us legal.

Interview:
[9:47] Permission to defend ourselves and really to attack the British. So, in the summer and the fall of 1775, there was mounting discussion within Massachusetts about unleashing privateers –, And this is something that the people in Massachusetts knew a lot about because, during the Seven Years’ War, the French and Indian War, the War of Jenkins’ Ear, other wars, Massachusetts men had launched privateers, had gotten into the privateering business. So the people of Massachusetts knew what privateering was all about, and they thought it could be an effective way of defending themselves against British aggression. And this discussion kept percolating in September and October. And finally, the provincial Congress decided to take it seriously. And they appointed Elbridge Gerry, who comes later to be a vice president of the United States. But he was born and raised in Marblehead, where I live, where I’m standing right now as I speak to you. And he knew very well.

Interview:
[10:53] How impacted the maritime commerce had been because of all the actions taken by Britain. And he felt there was a need to respond and that privateers would be an excellent way to respond. And the Provincial Congress knew of his background, knew of his interest. He had been one of the people that had been fomenting for privateering. So, they appointed him to come up with a privateering law, which he ultimately did. It was passed by the Provincial Congress on November 1st of 1775. And we were the first colony, Massachusetts was the first colony to authorize privateering. And soon after that, privateers were getting letters of mark and they were going out and started to attack British shipping.

Interview:
[11:44] Most importantly, they captured probably close to 2,000 British ships,

Privateers Outpace the Navy

Interview:
[11:50] and that’s really what had a major impact on the course of the war. Yeah, and when you compare that to the size and effectiveness of the Continental Navy, it makes privateering seem a little less like a sideshow to the other stories of the Revolution. A lot of the histories of the American Revolution focus, and rightly so, on land battles, famous people like George Washington, Nathaniel Green, and Lafayette. And they also focus a lot of attention on the Continental Navy because this is when our Navy was, in effect, born. But when you look at what really happened during the American Revolution –.

Interview:
[12:28] The Continental Navy, compared to privateering, was not nearly as effective. The Continental Navy had some high points. You know, there was the John Paul Jones and the Bonhomme Richard attacking the Serapis, which was a great psychological victory. But in real terms, it was a sort of a Pyrrhic victory. And John Adams, who was a big fan of the Navy as well as privateering, said in 1781, when he looked back at the Continental Navy’s record, where so many of them either sank, were captured, were burned, or.

Interview:
[13:01] Didn’t have very effective cruises, he said it was all they could do but cry when he thought about this history of the proud Continental Navy. But if you’re going to give them due credit, you absolutely also need to give credit to the, privateers, which were more numerous, more effective, and I think had a greater impact on the outcome of the war than the Continental Navy. And speaking of John Adams and speaking to the impact of privateering, that November 1775 privateering law in Massachusetts, he says, is one of the most important documents in history. About 20, 30 years after the American Revolution, he was reflecting as many of the founders were on their contribution to American history and trying to figure out what had actually happened during the American Revolution. Why did we win? And his comment was that the Declaration of Independence was what he called the French word, a bon brion, or a trifle compared to the privateering law of November 1st in terms of its impact. Again, I think the Declaration of Independence is quite important. One of the reasons that the Massachusetts law was so important is that it engendered a couple of other states to pass their own privateering laws, but it really increased the pressure on the Continental Congress.

Interview:
[14:26] To allow for the issuance of letters of Mark from the continental level.

Interview:
[14:33] Not just the state level. And once Congress did that on March 23rd of 1776, then all the letters of Mark issued after that time essentially were continental letters of Mark, no longer state-level letters of Mark. Locally here in Boston or in the Boston area, when that privateering law of 1775 went into effect, of course, that was being issued from the provincial Congress in

Recruiting the Crews

Interview:
[15:05] Watertown because Boston and the Port of Boston were occupied still. So for those first few months and the first acts of privateering under the new law, where were the Massachusetts privateers sailing from? Newburyport was very big. Salem at that point probably had a couple… Probably in the end of 1775 into the early months of 1776, there may have been on the order of 20 or maybe 30 privateers that issued from Massachusetts. But once Continental Congress got involved, it really exploded.

Interview:
[15:43] One individual said that the colonies basically went privateering mad. And that’s not a bad description of what happened. And of course, John Adams wrote everything down throughout his life. So, he’s a great source. You can say that thousands of schemes for privateering were afloat in the American imagination. I think that’s early 1776. So, it certainly was very front and center in his mind, at least. Yes, John Adams is the number one cheerleader for privateering during the American Revolution. Absolutely. And it is amazing how much he put down on paper. And we are fortunate as historians and readers and just people interested in the American Revolution that he did. He always had a way with words. Of course, when the Continental Congress finally takes his and everyone else’s advice and starts issuing letters of Mark, it’s another local boy whose signature is on him at that point.

Prize Rules and Abuse

Interview:
[16:41] It’s John Hancock’s signature on the instructions for the commanders of privateers. So, what were the rules that they were sailing under as Continental letters of Mark? The main rules were that they were not to treat any of their captured British prisoners poorly. No beating, no verbal harassment. Treat them as you would want to be treated if you were captured by the British prisoners.

Interview:
[17:10] They also had to bring all their prizes back to a local port where they could be adjudicated to determine if they were legal prizes and if they weren’t. And there were cases where people brought in – privateers brought in a British ship and it was determined by the court that this British ship was not engaged in the kind of commerce. It was not bringing munitions, for example, to the British army, or it was not delivering only British goods. It was really engaged in neutral trade or trade. It was not even a British ship.

Interview:
[17:48] Sometimes they would capture a Dutch or a other ship that had some British goods on board and they say, aha, you’re communicating in a mercantile way with the enemy, you’re a valid prize. But sometimes the court would determine, no, no, they were neutral at the time. These goods were theirs. So, that was part of it. An example of the importance of having a court to adjudicate whether a prize was legal or not. At one point, a Continental privateer captured one of John Hancock’s ships. He had a merchant fleet, but somebody brought in a prize and it was later turned out to be owned by John Hancock. So, it was not considered a legal prize. Privateers didn’t always do the right thing, sometimes intentionally, sometimes unintentionally. And there are a number of cases in which privateers attacked American ships and tried to claim them as transporting British goods, not in compliance with the rules of war that we.

Interview:
[18:51] When you’re on the ocean, you don’t know immediately the ship that you’re confronting. And there are all kinds of false signaling back and forth. You put up a British flag to get close to a British vessel, and you get close and fire a shot and run up three American flags. And then the other ship takes down its British flag and puts up an American. So, who were you really dealing with out there, right? That was really a big problem. The roost, the guerre, the use of the false flag, because American privateers were doing that. The British were doing that. The French were doing that. Other nations did that because if they could signal that they were one thing that wouldn’t be attacked, that’s much better than signaling something that they would be attacked. So trying to figure out who you were engaged with was very difficult. And oftentimes the ships would come close on board and they would call to each other, who are you? And sometimes the privateer would demand under the muzzles of their cannons that the ship that they’re next to send some men over with your papers so we can determine who you are and what your cargo is. And there were a few times when two American privateers almost came to blows before they suddenly realized, hey, we’re both on the same team.

Interview:
[20:01] Yeah, the confusion out there had to be something.

How Privateers Were Manned

Interview:
[20:05] So, you mentioned the challenges of recruiting for privateer vessels alongside recruiting to the Continental Army, the Continental Navy, and having just laborers at home. And in the book, you quote an ad in 1780 by the commander of a ship called the Dean, who was recruiting in Boston for folks who would find a hearty welcome at John Hancock’s Wharf. So, I wonder if you could just tell me a little bit about that ad and what we can glean from that, about who was serving on Massachusetts privateers, how they were compensated, what the difference between the crews and the officers were. Just what can we gather from an ad like that? Well, the first thing that a ship owner, a merchant who wanted to transform his merchant ship into a privateer, the first thing that he had to do, was to get a captain and a crew. Now, in many instances, these merchants were very familiar with captains of ships that were able. And oftentimes, they would directly contact one of those captains and say, hey, would you like to captain my privateer? But for the crewmen on board, the usual way of obtaining them was to place an ad in the local paper or to put.

Interview:
[21:18] Handbills up and have this, quote unquote, hearty welcome where they would invite people to sign on to the privateer. And at the same time, they would ply them with liquor, grog and cherry toddies and rum and other stuff. And they tout the great potential of becoming a privateer. Oftentimes in the ad itself, it said, you know, here you have an opportunity to make your fortune. And they would also, the owners would often brag about the commodious nature of the privateer and the quality of the fare on board, which is often quite an exaggeration. It was quite miserable being on a 70-foot ship with 110 other men roaming around the Atlantic Ocean. But they would lure these people in, and they didn’t have to convince them too much because the incentives were there. And there’s a quote in the book where I talk about this guy in New Hampshire who was saying how so many of his friends, young men in their late teens, would just get up and leave the farm or leave their family without even telling them where they were going, go down to one of the ports, sign into a privateer to make their fortune, and then come back six months later, either with money in hand or I had a bad.

Interview:
[22:33] Voyage and people all the time wondering where they went. So it was sort of like a gold rush of sorts of people heading to the ports to sign on to privateers.

Profit and Patriotism

Interview:
[22:43] When you’re recruiting for a privateer like that, obviously, there’s a profit motive for everybody involved. But was that –, different? Was the compensation different for a crew versus the officers on board? Even on a pirate ship, they would have the articles of agreement where the booty would be divided pretty much equally among everybody. However, the captain and the quartermaster and sometimes the doctor, if he was on board, would get a few more shares. And certainly, with privateers, the captain, the first mate, the higher-ups, they got more. They may get eight shares or 10 shares, whereas the lowly privateer.

Interview:
[23:22] Who’s doing a lot of the fighting in some cases, would only get one share. But still, it was fairly equally distributed. And if you were a strict privateer, not a letter of mark, it was no prey, no pay, no prizes, no money.

Interview:
[23:38] But one thing that’s really important to add here, and I have a very long section in the book about it because it’s something that constantly comes up when people talk about privateers, they paint them as being these greedy people who didn’t have any Republican virtues. They were not doing anything for civic reasons, for patriotic reasons, for the cause of their country. And what I think I make quite clear in the book, and I think it’s very persuasive and I believe, is that the privateers were not that much different from other people operating at the same time. You have to remember that the Continental Navy, those people on board Continental Navy ships. They, in effect, were glorified privateers in many instances, and they went out in search of prizes, as did John Paul Jones, and they got a cut of the profits. And the.

Interview:
[24:22] And advertisements to get people to join Continental Navy ships often made special mention of the opportunity to gain your fortune, amass a fortune. And they were sometimes paid signing bonuses to come on. So there’s a money incentive there. And in the Continental Army, while the people that came out originally during the Battle of Bunker Hill and the Siege of Boston and the militia, they were fired by patriotic zeal. As the war went on, everybody realized that without money in their pockets, there were a lot of desertions, and Congress had to offer land and promise that they were going to pay. And George Washington and other leaders were constantly saying how patriotism alone and Republican virtues is not going to keep our army together. They need to be paid. There needs to be an opportunity for profit. People operate on both levels. And the people in Congress who voted overwhelmingly for privateering.

Interview:
[25:21] They knew that it was helping the cause and in some cases enriching themselves. And if they didn’t think that there was a benefit to privateering, they could have ended the practice, but they never seriously considered that. And they were people who were clear-eyed enough to realize that patriotism and profit don’t have to be at odds. They could be two sides of the same coin. So I’m not going to argue that all privateers were burning with patriotic zeal. That’s certainly not the case. Neither were all Continental Army or Naval men. But there’s no doubt based on their writings and just the fact that they probably reflected the same sentiments as the larger population, that a number of privateers had a combination of motives for going into that line of work. Part of it was out of patriotism, fighting for their country, gaining their freedom from the despotic British.

Interview:
[26:21] But part of it was also to earn a living because you had to. And if you brought back a prize and you earned some money from that, that helped not only you but your family and your larger community. So I was just interested in that. A lot of people will just sort of blithely say, oh, privateers, they’re pirates, and I’ve already dealt with that issue. And they’ll blithely say, privateers, they were just in it for the money, and that’s kind of dirty and low, and we shouldn’t really respect them. Well, if you look carefully at all the other people that were engaged in the American Revolution, not just the people fighting it on the ground, but the leaders who were running it. The smart people and the honest people realized that both prophets and patriotism could be alive in the same individuals and were important forces.

Interview:
[27:18] During the entire war. So if you’re going to impugn the motives of privateers, you have to impugn the motives of everybody else that was operating around them, which often evinced a combination of motives to their actions. And you give plenty of examples in the book of privateersmen who are being held – taken prisoner and then being held in just horrific conditions on the Jersey or one of the prison hulks in New York Harbor, given the opportunity to get out of really some of the worst prison conditions imaginable by joining a British crew who refuse on patriotic ground. So, it certainly sort of reflects the principle behind the prophet.

Merchants Fund the Vessels

Interview:
[28:00] But speaking of profit, it wasn’t just the crews and officers. Somebody had to be fronting the money to lease or buy a ship, outfit it with 30 or 60 guns, hire these crews initially, especially here in Massachusetts. Who was providing the financial backing to set up privateers? The main financial backing came from the people whose ox was being gored, basically. The merchants, their fleets had to be permanently moored in their ports in the beginning of the revolution because the British were on the open ocean and were really caught putting a crimp in American commercial activity. So all of these merchants who suddenly had their fleets inactive were not earning money.

Interview:
[28:47] Realized that they could be put to good use as privateers. So they dug deep into their often very deep pockets to outfit these privateering vessels. And as you mentioned, one of the main things that was required is sometimes merchant vessels, even in the mid 1700s, often had a couple of cannons on board at least, and they had muskets. And there were some armaments, but they weren’t fierce fighting machines. But to be a good privateer, you often had to have the ability not only to defend yourself if a British privateer or British man of war were to attack, but also to, be threatening enough and be able to attack another ship to gain it as a prize. So, one of the main things that these merchants had to, pay for was reconfiguring the main deck, putting bulwarks up, holes in them for cannons, buying the cannons, buying the ammunition, buying the powder. So, without the merchants who had the deep pockets, privateering wouldn’t have been able to get off the ground.

Interview:
[29:55] And they benefited directly because if their ships came back, like Elias Haskett Derby of Salem, probably one of the most famous men during this era, both before, during, and after the American Revolution. There were 138 privateers that went forth from Salem, and something like 40 or 50 of them he either owned or had a part ownership in. And some of those ships were already merchant ships before the war, but one of the most famous was the Grand Turk, was a huge 300-ton ship that Elias Haskett-Durmy had built specifically for privateering, and had a huge number of cannons And Zon Borden was successful and then later became an integral part of the expanding China trade after the American Revolution was over. And Americans were finally able to sail to China and engage in that commerce. So you had these merchants transforming their own ships into privateers, sometimes building new ships, which, by the way, benefited greatly the local economy. Another knock-on effect of privateering, employing shipwrights and others who had to build these ships. And then you also had the people who were the victuallers, who were supplying the ships with all of their food and other things that were needed on board. So privateering, as one early historian said, was one of the biggest industries during the American Revolution. Right.

Interview:
[31:18] Because it wasn’t just the men on board who signed on to be privateers, but think of all the other individuals who were involved in the broader endeavor, from the building of the ships to supplying of the ships. Even when they came back into port, merchant owners would take out ads in local newspapers announcing the sale of this prize or that prize. Well, the newspapers got a little bit of money for that advertising. Lawyers made a killing at this time because when the privateer owners were taken to court, when somebody said, hey, you took the wrong ship, or that’s.

Interview:
[31:57] A ship that it’s not British, it’s somebody else’s ship, and we want it back. The owners want it back. Well, the privateer owners had to hire lawyers to represent them. And there’s a great quote in the book about one guy writing to another guy who happened to be a lawyer saying, man, your business is exploding because all of these privateers. So, when you look at any activity to really understand its impact, you have to look at all the tendrils that come out, not necessarily just the specific activity you’re focusing on. And privateering had ripple effects on the American economy during the American Revolution.

Hunting Prizes Across the Atlantic

Interview:
[32:34] When our listeners are trying to envision what a privateer cruise was like, I know early on in the war, during the siege of Boston, there was plenty of British shipping. A lot of privateering happened basically within sight of Boston Light. But then later on, the British move off to Halifax and then New York. And where do the privateers go after that?

Interview:
[32:54] Privateers, just like pirates, go where the money is to be had, in this case where prizes are to be found. So the privateers, you see them ranging up and down the coast because there are a lot of British ships and merchant ships that are coming in to supply the British Army and the British Navy that is located at various points along within the colonies. You also see many privateers going out into the broader Atlantic, trying to intercept British ships that are transiting between London and the Caribbean. Now, you have to keep in mind the Caribbean is basically the main source, one of the main sources, along with India. But really, the Caribbean is probably the most important at this time in terms of commerce because there was sugar.

Interview:
[33:38] There was the slave trade. And London and England was very involved in both of those. And American privateers did an exceptionally good job of capturing not only slave ships, but also, ships that had sugar on board and other goods that were transiting from the Caribbean back to London and from London to the Caribbean, causing major problems within the Caribbean British colonies, but also within Britain itself. So the privateers arrange all over the place in the Atlantic. A number of privateers went to the African coast to directly attack British slavers and bring those ships back as prizes, but also bring the human cargo, the enslaved people back into the slave economy.

Interview:
[34:26] In the colonies or in the Caribbean. Yeah.

Interview:
[34:29] They would go to right off England. There were a number of privateers, especially those that operated out of France during part of the American Revolution that were American privateers, which had American captains and officers, but often French crews. And they would attack British shipping right around the United Kingdom and within a couple of miles of the shore. So privateers would go wherever they felt they could find good prizes. They went north to Nova Scotia, off Canada, Quebec, and then they would come back. But privateering cruises generally did not last very, very long. It was quite common to go out for a couple of months or maybe up to six months, but not to go out for years at a time because you had to come back, especially if you’re successful. And if you weren’t successful after a while, you just had to give up and maybe regroup back in port and then go out again on another day.

Interview:
[35:29] Another day. So they would go where the targets of opportunity were. And just imagine, one of the things that fascinates me about this period, and a lot of my books really focus on the great age of sail. It’s not because I’m a sailor. I’m not a sailor. I live in Marblehead. There are a lot of sailing goes on here. I’m just fascinated by the ocean. Something about these stories, just the thoughts envisioning these small ships, even a hundred foot long ship It’s a small ship out in the mighty Atlantic going out. They have no satellite data. They have no GPS.

Interview:
[36:04] They have relatively crude navigational skills and science to rely on. And they’re going out and they don’t have advanced knowledge of where ships, you know, what ships are leaving which ports halfway across the world. And they go out and they cross their fingers and they search the horizon every day and they hope that the right ship is going to come along and that they will see it at the right time. There must have been thousands of ships that were potential prizes that passed, you know, maybe 20 miles away, a little bit beyond the curvature of the earth.

The General Arnold Disaster

Interview:
[36:42] Or even at night, just passing by without a lantern. It could pass almost spar to spar and never know that there was another ship there that definitely happened, a lot so privateering was a a real gamble you have a whole chapter in the book i don’t remember the title of the chapter but it seems like the place to put the cool stories you found about some of the experiences of these privateers men so i want to ask you about a couple of them, Okay. Let’s see if I remember the details. Okay. So quiz time. There was a privateer vessel, a couple of privateer vessels called the General Arnold named after that great American hero, General Benedict Arnold. So one of the generals Arnold sails out of Boston Harbor Christmas Eve, 1778 on a, what turned out to be a very short cruise. Can you tell, can you tell me what happened to the General Arnold?

Interview:
[37:32] Yeah, that’s a horrific story.

Interview:
[37:36] The General Arnold, captained by a guy named James McGee, sailed out. I can’t remember the exact number, but it’s probably over 100 men on board. And they were going on a six-month cruise in tandem with another privateer. And as they were going around the outstretched arm of Cape Cod, some bad weather blew in and they got separated. The other privateer went on, I think, to the Caribbean, but the General Arnold was caught in a major snowstorm, and they tried to seek shelter in Plymouth Harbor. They moored outside right near the mouth of the harbor, and the wind and the, snow and the waves were just absolutely merciless. They were caught in a major blizzard, and the temperature dropped precipitously. And essentially, over the course of a day and a night, about 72 men on board froze to death. And they actually – the men on board who survived, who were barely hanging on to life because they couldn’t – the people on shore saw some of this happening, but they couldn’t get out there to rescue them. And the people on board.

Interview:
[38:54] The General Arnold were not able to lower their boats and go inshore. So they basically were fighting the elements for more than 24 hours. And the people who were still alive took some of the frozen corpses and arranged them like cordwood to make a break against the wind and the spray of the waves. The ship was basically destroyed. It was pushed up against on sandbars, and the hull was compromised. And then finally, the next day, when things calmed down a little bit, the people on shore were able to make their way out to the crippled General Arnold on ice flows and using wooden planks. And then they were able to transport – they transported like 72 corpses, I think it was, back to shore, as well as the living.

Interview:
[39:49] The corpses were so frozen that they couldn’t put them into coffins, so they put them in a local creek to thaw them out a little bit, so they were a little malleable. And the men who survived, some of them died even after being brought on shore. And one of them that I talk about extensively in the little segment is Barnabas Downs, who was almost dead when the rescuers came. And it was only by dint of one of his eyelashes, his eyelids fluttering, that the rescuers realized this guy’s not dead. He’s still alive. And they brought him into a local bar. They had to pry open his jaw to get liquids into him. And he slowly regained life, but had a number of amputations.

Interview:
[40:35] But he lived out a relatively happy life after that, despite his need to hobble around with crutches. So it’s really a horrific story of being caught by the elements and, for the most part, losing. James McGee went on. He survived. He went on to become a very well-known China trader in the new United States. And one of the owners of the Shirley Eustace House in Roxbury, when I was a docent there, his name would come up in connection to the China trade, and I’d never looked into his time as a privateer captain. That’s one thing you see a lot in this, but you don’t see it in the book. If you read this book and then you read my book, When America First Met China, you could see the connections because there’s a big section on the American Revolution in that book as well. But a lot of the skills that privateers gained during the American Revolution were put to use after the American Revolution when a lot of those privateering vessels.

Interview:
[41:32] Either returned to being merchant vessels or the ones that were built expressly to be privateers were, transformed into merchant vessels and basically introduced the new country,

Privateering’s Wealthy Winners

Interview:
[41:44] the United States, to the world via commerce. In researching this book, what did you find out about how privateering helped to build wealth and sort of the intergenerational fortunes for some of the investors or the captains, either in New England or beyond? Tracking the fortunes of the privateers who weren’t the captains or the owners is more difficult because, as in every time of history, the average person doesn’t make much of an imprint. There’s not a lot written about their life.

Interview:
[42:19] But what I can say is that privateering did contribute to a number of fortunes and certainly contributed to a number of individuals having a better financial outlook during the revolution. Afterward. There have been a couple of studies by academics that have shown that a number of privateers, in fact, one study that focused on Boston, it basically showed that, the vast majority of people who were involved in privateering during the American Revolution, at the owner level who had fortunes already, their fortunes greatly improved during and right after the American Revolution. And a lot of that was no doubt due to privateering income. I’m sure there’s a researcher out there who someday is going to take up the cudgel and do a deep dive on all the individual owners and see what happened to them during and after the revolution. Teasing out exactly what happened to people’s fortunes and why is difficult. But there’s no doubt that privateering helps a number of people financially, both low-level people and high-level people. And it also probably harmed people financially because they were on the wrong end of a winning streak.

British Costs and War Weariness

Interview:
[43:34] On the flip side, in a way, it’s easy to see the impact of American privateering on America. You can see the captures of British vessels, the morale boost that increases the negotiating position of people like Franklin and Adams. But what was the impact on the British war effort? How much impact did American privateering have directly on the ability of the British to prosecute the war? You cannot argue, and I don’t argue, that privateering brought Britain to its knees. What privateering really did, it was part and parcel of a whole suite of things that were taking place that was making the war harder to sustain from the British perspective. And privateers definitely did send insurance rates skyrocketing, especially in the Caribbean, and ships leaving from English ports because of potential attacks.

Interview:
[44:27] Probably 1,600 to 1,800 British ships were captured as prizes, and that was a real financial loss. At one point, the Earl of Suffolk said on, the floor of Parliament when they were discussing all of the losses that had taken place, particularly in the Caribbean, where American privateers were waylaying British ships right and left. He said basically to his fellow parliament members, be quiet, be quiet. We shouldn’t be talking about this out in the open because it really gives a, proof of the impotence of our country and how poorly this is going. And there were a number of British people who were sided with the Americans. I mean, they didn’t want to lose America, but they also weren’t supporters of the war. So the incremental impacts of privateering on affecting insurance rates, direct captures.

Interview:
[45:22] Forcing a lot of British warships to do convoy duty with merchant ships, all of these things, it was part of the drip, drip, drip, and then bringing France into the war on the side of America, which privateering had a role in. All of these things combined with military victories on land and other factors. It kind of contributed to a war weariness on the part of Britain and was part of the soup.

Interview:
[45:53] For lack of a better word, of things that forced Britain to finally decide we are going to put an end to this war. America is going to be its own country, and hopefully we’re going to benefit from all that trade after the revolution, which is pretty much what happened. A couple of years after that battle of the Virginia Capes and the Battle of

Why Piracy Did Not Return

Interview:
[46:12] Yorktown, we have a negotiated peace in North America, at least. What happened to all those privateers and their crews after peace came? Why didn’t we see this spike in piracy like we saw after King William’s War or Queen Anne’s War? It’s a good question. It’s sort of hard to say why did something not happen. But part of it was because these privateers were of a much purer character during the American Revolution. A lot of the privateers in earlier wars were actually engaged in nothing but piracy, but they used their letter of mark as a cloak of legitimacy. Here in the American Revolution, American privateers didn’t do that. So it was perhaps much less likely that they would veer into piracy. Also, after the American Revolution was won…

Interview:
[46:58] You have to think about the amazing psychological environment that Americans were living in. They were the newest country on the face of the globe. And people believed at the time that the prospects were very bright because all of a sudden, all of these ports around the world, which were closed to Americans because of British Navigation Acts, were now suddenly laid open. So I think there was an incredible amount of optimism. It didn’t last long in certain cases. There was a depression. And, you know, but I don’t think the impulse to go into piracy was there. I think the impulse really was to transform all of the still existing privateers into merchant ships and into peaceful pursuits. And for a while and certainly growing in the late 1700s and into the early 1800s, there were a lot of opportunities for peaceful commerce. And for whatever reason, people didn’t turn to piracy. I mean, part of the reason, and again, I can’t prove this because it’s proving something, why did something not happen? But you have to think about in the early 1700s and the 1500s and 1600s.

Interview:
[48:05] The oceans of the world and certainly the Atlantic was a lot more like the Wild West. By the time of the American Revolution, and certainly afterwards, there were a lot of pretty massive navies afloat, and there was a lot of commerce that needed to be protected. So I think the opportunities for pirates to operate were constrained because they would be subject to probably more massive retaliation. And also, you would have to be pretty powerful, a pretty powerful pirate ship. To overhaul a 300 or 400-ton merchant vessel that had 20 cannons on board and 200 people. The ships were just getting bigger. Commercial ships, merchant ships were much, much bigger in the late 1700s and into the early 1800s and more capable of either outrunning or defending themselves against pirates. And plus, there were more naval ships afloat that might put a crimp in any pirate’s plan. And who knows? Maybe people just became more honest, although I find that hard to believe.

The End of Letters of Marque

Interview:
[49:18] So, if our listeners have gotten inspired by all this talk about privateering, where can they go if they want to enlist in a privateer crew today?

Interview:
[49:28] We can still, according to the United States Constitution, we can still issue letters of mark. We don’t, and I don’t think we will be anytime soon. We have a powerful navy that can do our fighting for us if it comes to that. When did that transition happen? When did countries turn away from letters of mark? They basically turned away from them in the mid-1850s. There have been a lot of calls after the American Revolution, even by Benjamin Franklin, who had been a big supporter of privateering during the war. After the war, he thought it was a barbaric practice, and he urged the new United States to ban privateering. But the problem was, nobody else was really banning privateering at the time. And when the War of 1812 rolled around, here America was in a similar position, fighting once again Britain, their navy, although larger, certainly, and more capable than it was during the American Revolution, was still not a massive fighting force. So once again, When President Madison in Congress decided to issue letters of mark, hundreds and hundreds of privateers left from American ports, and they played an important role in the War of 1812, as well. But even in subsequent decades, there were a number of American politicians and other people both here and abroad who thought privateering should be outlawed, in part because they viewed it as legalized piracy.

Interview:
[50:52] Or also the idea that war shouldn’t be waged against peaceful commerce but should be waged against other warring powers and warships and soldiers. So in the mid-1850s, after the Crimean War, there was an effort on the part of the international community to outlaw privateering. And everybody, even England, signed on. But America, the United States, decided not to become a signatory to that part of the treaty because they thought they might. Need privateering again. We still didn’t have a massive navy, and it might be good to have letters of mark in our back pocket should we be attacked again. And interestingly enough, the people who attacked the Americans, it was during the Civil War. During the Civil War, the Confederacy issued a number of letters of mark.

Interview:
[51:42] They weren’t particularly effective, but they did go out and attack a number of Northern or Union ships. And there was a time at which Abraham Lincoln was even in favor of hanging these Confederate privateers as pirates. But when he got word from Jefferson Davis, the president of the Confederacy, that, okay, you hang our Confederate privateers as pirates, we’re going to start hanging your Union soldiers and mariners that we capture, so it’ll be tit for tat. So no Confederate privateers were hanged, and they weren’t that effective, so they sort of petered out towards the end of the war. And after that, after the Civil War, I am unaware of any time at which the United States issued a letter of mark because come the late 1800s, certainly the early 1900s, we had a very powerful Navy and we had other ways to engage in war. We didn’t need to rely on privateering.

Final Thoughts and Contact Info

Interview:
[52:43] Before I go into a wrap-up, is there anything that you wish I had asked about today that I didn’t? No, I think we ranged over a whole lot. We did. We covered a lot of ground today. If anybody has any other questions, they can always reach me through my website. And that’s at www.ericjdolan.com. It’s just my whole name, E-R-I-C-J-A-Y-D-O-L-I-N.com. And the reason that I would recommend that people look at that website is, first, the introduction to all of my books is on the website. If you go to the individual books pages, you can read the introduction to Rebels at Sea so you can get an idea of whether you might want to read the rest of the book. I also include reviews that have come out so you can see what other people thought about the book. And I also have a page of events.

Interview:
[53:43] I have about 30 or 35 talks scheduled, mostly in New England, but some further afield. And I know that there are more in the works. So if you go to my events page, on ericjdolan.com, you can see exactly where I’m speaking. And if I’m speaking near where you live, you know, please come to the talk and you can see a nice 90 slide slideshow and talk about rebels at sea. One other thing that’s on my website is I offer autographed copies of the book. I once had somebody ask, have me sign one of my books. It said, dear so-and-so, I couldn’t have written this book without you, Eric. That’s excellent. That’s a great idea. but yeah that was the only thing I would just say if people want to learn more about me who I am my background and all the books the 15 books that I’ve written on a whole bunch of different topics just go to my website.

Interview:
[54:40] One other thing I’ll add, I have a Facebook page that’s fairly active. I post a lot of stuff about history. I post a lot of stuff about my books. I tend to post a lot of stuff about nature or quirky facts. It’s also a good way to find out more about what I’m doing, what I’m writing about, or what historical topics intrigue me. Again, that’s just my Facebook page is my name, at Eric Jay Dolin, and you’ll get there. So, listeners can just tap on the show notes link in the app they’re listening to this in right now. And we’ll have a link there to your website, your Facebook, and a link to buy Rebels at Sea, Privateering and the American Revolution. Eric Jay Dolin, I just want to say thank you so much for doing this, for spending so much time with us here today. I’ve really appreciated the conversation. You’re welcome. I had a fun time. Thanks.

Jake:
[55:30] To learn more about Privateers in the American Revolution and the book Rebels at Sea, check out this week’s show notes at hubhistory.com slash 356. I’ll have a bookshop affiliate link where you can support the show and independent bookstores when you buy Rebels at Sea, Privateering in the American Revolution. We’ll also have a link to Eric Jay Dolin’s website where you can learn more about the author and his upcoming events to promote his latest books. you.

Jake:
[56:01] If you want to get in touch with me, you can email podcast at hubhistory.com. I still maintain profiles for Hub History on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram, and over on Mastodon, where you can find me as at hubhistory at better.boston. Lately, the only social media site where I actively engage with people and post from time to time is Blue Sky. If you want to find me on Blue Sky, just search for hubhistory.com. If you’re spending just as much or really as little time on social media as I am these days, just go to hubhistory.com and click on the Contact Us link. While you’re on the site, hit the Subscribe link, and be sure that you never miss an episode. If you listen on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, please consider writing us a brief review. If you do, drop me a line, and I’d love to send you a Hub History sticker as a token of thanks. That’s all for now. Stay safe out there, listeners. We’ll be right back.